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Hi, everyone. And welcome back to the Sound of Musicals. 欢迎回来【曲外之音】. Hi, Oliver.

Hello, again.

This is Part Two of our discussion on the Book of Mormon.

Yeah, a great musical.

Albeit controversial, because on the surface it looks like it’s anti-religion, it’s saying that religions are stupid, but it's not necessarily so, is it？

No, it does look like that at first glance, but it's not being offensive towards religions. I don't think so. If you look below the surface of it, it is just kind of making a commentary on people's beliefs, not necessarily religion, but any people's beliefs; and it's not offensive to them, it's just using comedy as a way to discuss them.

I think it's not sort of criticizing religion as a concept, as a source of faith, source of hope, source of salvation.

But it's more satirizing some of the very rigid rituals certain religions have, or all religions have, and saying that we shouldn't be focusing on all of these minute details of a religion, but we should focus on why people have religion or have religious belief to start with. It is really to have that hope.

Yes, I agree. I think it is just making a comment on how people's beliefs might be a little bit unusual sometimes and may seem silly to others, but the outcome is that people have hope, they have belief.

This lets them get through terrible situations, whatever their hope is, whatever their belief is. It's a coping mechanism in many ways. And that is something that everybody needs, no matter how you find it.

Especially like the beginning and the end they use the same piece of music. Beginning it was saying the Book of Mormon, towards the end, it says the Book of Arnold, it doesn't matter whether it’s Book of Mormon or Book of Arnold. The idea is the same. It brings people hope.

Yeah, the fact the music is the same. It shows that religions whilst they may seem different and have different names, they have the same goal in a way, which is this hope that people have.

Yeah, and even for people who are self-claimed believers, and sometimes it's very difficult to say what they actually believe in. Is it the actual details about a certain god or certain deity, or is it more about the idea of religion？

For example, the villagers in Uganda, when Arnold Cunningham, one of the Mormon boys, when he was preaching, he added in a lot of nonsense, he added in a lot of Sci-Fi films and fantasy films. However, these people just believed him.

So eventually they were trying to say to the villagers Look, I'm so sorry that was not real. A lot of those things we said was nonsense. And then the villagers were saying you know what, we didn't take it literally. We took it metaphorically, we never thought those were the absolute truth what you were saying, but we just took it as part of the belief system and that's just metaphorical.

I think obviously we don't want to go into specific religions in the world now, but if you think about it, every religion has those stories. If you ask believers, do they truly believe in all of those stories that actually happened？Maybe not, but the messages these stories sent, they're very meaningful.

Yeah. They're very meaningful. I am not religious myself, but I like the messages that they bring the faith and the hope that they give to people.

But talking about that, actually a little bit about the music. One of the…perhaps can be construed as most offensive piece of music in this, is called Hasa Diga Eebowai.

Yeah, we were just talking about nice messages of hope. This is a message of hope. This is a coping mechanism. It fits perfectly into what we were talking about even if the language is appalling for some people.

Yeah. So let me give you the background of this piece of music. Hasa Diga Eebowai obviously, it's not English, it's a local language. So when these two, elder Price and elder Cunningham, when they first arrived in Uganda in this village, the village head, he was greeting them, and he says in this part of Africa, whenever something bad happens, we just throw our hands up to the sky and say Hasa Diga Eebowai.

And because these two Mormon boys they're really naive. So Cunningham was saying, oh does it mean like Hakuna Matata, it means no worries for the rest of your days?

Following the Lion King there.

And the village head was saying kind of, so we've had no rain in several days, Hasa Diga Eebowai; 80% of us have AIDS, Hasa Diga Eebowai; and then lots of bad things happen and then you say Hasa Diga Eebowai.

And it turns out, actually this means F you, God. I cannot imagine any other musical would do this.

No. It talks about…it's very in your face about the problems, really…

It's like what can you do.

Yeah.

When survival becomes almost impossible, and then they don't have the luxury of saying Hakuna Matata, no worries. Because life-threatening things are happening around them. There's not much hope.

No, I think the song and the phrase, the same use as Hakuna Matata, which is you say something to help you to cope.

Some people believe it's part of a plan, these guys they say something very different.

Yeah. I mean, you listen to it, listen to the soundtrack is one thing, but I was actually seeing it live in theater in the West End. It was a very powerful piece because when they were talking about Hasa Diga Eebowai, obviously when they explained it, everyone was not shocked, but everyone was kind of laughing and be like, so in your face.

But then, all the actors on stage, turned towards the audience, they were just looking straight into audiences' eyes, they just said if you don't like what we say, try living here a couple days, watch all your friends and family die, Hasa Diga Eebowai.

The thing is a lot of people would say this is so offensive you can't say that. But personally I think that is a very much a holier than thou, is like because I cannot see evil and I cannot see hopelessness in the world. I cannot see complete depravity in the world. So, I try to ignore them. And when you say it, I'm going to say this is being so offensive, but this is the reality for them.

It is, yes. It may be offensive to some people, but they’re being offended from their own standing from their own life and their own viewpoint, rather than the viewpoint of the people who are being portrayed.

It shouldn't be offensive how people deal with situations.

If you cannot walk in these people's shoes, then you really shouldn't judge.

Yes.

I think that message was very clear. Let's listen to this bit. Mind you, it's very powerful.

OK. So if you're not scared off by that, there is another side of it, so the Mormon side of it, there was a piece of music called Turn it off.

Turn it off, I thought was a very good song, personally that took me a while to sort of decipher what was going on there.

Remember we were saying the Hasa Diga Eebowai, the locals how they were saying what their attitude is. But then the Mormon side their attitude is complete opposite, is more we're going to push down any thoughts we don't want. We’re going to really not look at reality if the reality is bad and just focus on the power of face.

In this piece, a bunch of Mormon missionaries, they gathered around, they were sharing stories about their life and they were saying how their faith has helped them.

But if you listen, although they sound sweet, but they were talking about things that are really dark, like domestic violence, like death, like sexual orientation. They are talking about very big and heavy things.

For instance, there was one boy who said, when I was young, my dad would treat my mom real bad. Every time the Utah Jazz would lose, he'd start drinking. I'd start thinking, how am I going to keep my mom from getting abused？I'd see her all scared and my soul was dying. My dad would say to me, now don't you dare start crying.

If you listen to this, this is so scary, this is about childhood trauma, right？And then this part is all very emotional, but then the next sentence he immediately switched to this usual Mormon light-heartedness and go Turn it off. Like a light switch just go click, it's our nifty little Mormon tricks, just turn it off. So don't think about it, bad things, don't think about it, ignore it, push it down.

The moments in this show certainly have this sort of idea of happiness and naivety through out the whole thing. All of the bad things, all of the dark thoughts, turn it off, get rid of them. Hey, it's fine. It was very strange, yeah.

Yeah. It's like you're crying and dying inside, but you put on a smile and you pretend nothing.

And you pretend nothing's wrong, which…

It's a really eerie song.

It is very strange, but it sounds so cheerful and happy when you listen to it. It's a very catchy tune. I was humming it. When I thought about the lyrics afterwards, it was, oh, yeah.

Let's listen to this bit.

So is there any particular tune you quite like？

The one that really got me was I am Africa that I thought was…

That's a great one.

It is very good, isn't it？It's a little bit cringe, I thought, in places it's an …. Again, it's this message behind the obvious that they're trying to put forward. And I think it does it very well.

It's all these Mormon missionaries, these white boys. And then they were getting together and they’re singing I am Africa. I represent African people.

Just saying it like that sounds so bad, but yes.

It's so satirical. Cunningham who was really useless in the beginning, and he says I'm not a follower anymore. No. Now I'm freaking Africa. And towards the end, he actually said Africans are African, but we are Africa. Which is so, so satirical.

Yeah, it's making a commentary on people who go to other countries, experience it a little bit, possibly try to impose their own culture on it. Because remember these guys are spreading a religion which is not from Uganda, he suddenly feels like, oh I am Africa.

Yeah, I have to admit I've met people like that in China. People who stayed in China for a few years and then started trying to lecture me about Chinese culture, which I find to be a bit ridiculous and definitely condescending.

Definitely so, yes. I think it's easy for some people to do. They kind of fall into it, but it is definitely not something people should do.

And that is what this song does, it makes fun of those people.

OK. We can listen to a bit of this.

Yeah.

I don't know if you guys find it as satiric as we do. But anyhow, I think that's all the time we have. We're going to wrap up here.

There're so many so many amazing tunes in this, and if you can get past the initial shock, I'm sure you're going to enjoy this.

Yeah, after you get past the first wow, what is this kind of surprise? It's not as obvious as you think it is. I think people who get offended, they see the obvious. They don't look past it because they are offended.

Yeah, it's not really against religion.

No. it's not against anything, really. It is just a comedy making a commentary on certain aspects of life. So…

I want to finish off with a comment made by VOGUE, VOGUE magazine calling the show the filthiest, most offensive, and surprise sweetest thing you would see on Broadway.

Three words which are not often together.

But Book of Mormon… that fits Book of Mormon to a T.

Okay, so on that note, we're going to ask you to leave us a comment in the comment section if you have watched or you want to watch the show eventually, and tell us about any other show that you would like to request in this segment. And thank you, Oliver for coming to the show again.

Thank you for having me again.

We'll see you next time.

See you soon.

Bye.